We want to walk through why God spoke to us through prophets, speaking in tongues, and miracles while the canon of Scripture was being written, and why our dry, Calvinist-y selves believe that those gifts are no longer in use today. We understand that many of our friends do not hold this position, and we have no interest in kicking anyone out of the Kingdom. BUT, you asked, so we answered! Buckle up and let’s think through this together!  

Episode Navigation

 

7:00 For some reason, Summer reads Florida Man headlines.
10:40 We are cessationists. And it’s not super easy to discuss.
19:21 One of the reasons that we are cessationists is that the role of miracles in Scripture was really unique and purposeful.
25:30 No, we aren’t “limiting” God, and here’s how.
29:45 A quick discussion on speaking in tongues.
31:11 What does cessationism have to do with the sufficiency of Scripture?

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4 Comments

  1. Heath

    Love your podcast! Continuationist here with some honest questions:

    – What is your scriptural basis for creating a separate “sign gifts” category to distinguish them from other gifts?
    – Given the fact that prophecy, tongues, and healing were all done by non-apostles (I can provide references if necessary), why assume that they were only for the apostles?
    – If the early church viewed the gift of prophecy as having the same authority as scripture, why were they told to “weigh carefully what is said” (1 Cor. 14:29).
    – In Acts 2, Peter refers to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost as the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy about the last days. Part of what characterizes the last days in that passage is prophecy, signs and wonders. Do you think that the “last days” that the passage spoke of are over?
    – Given that there are no scriptures telling us that these “apostolic sign gifts” would cease prior to the time of completeness and seeing face to face mentioned in 1 Cor. 13, why is it not dangerous to use extra-biblical reasons to say that significant portions of the New Testament, including explicit commands to pursue these gifts, no longer apply to us? Couldn’t we use this type of reasoning to say, for example, that the strict moral codes of the apostolic era no longer apply to us as well?
    – What’s your take on the multitudes of orthodox, fruit-bearing Christians who testify to having been saved after being physically healed or receiving an accurate prophecy/word of knowledge?

    I could continue, but that should be enough to keep the conversation going. Let me know if I’ve misunderstood anything that you said.

    Thanks!

    Reply
  2. Dan

    I would also ask what Heath asks. It seems like you ignore 1 Corinthians 12. Paul does not seem to make a hard line between “natural” and “supernatural” gifts: wisdom, and faith are right next to healing and prophecy. Why have some ceased but not others?
    Also, as Heath says, why are we commanded to “weigh” these things? And, if the Corinthian believers were actually experiencing the gift of prophecy, why are these utterances not in the Bible? I think you misunderstand the gift of prophecy as Paul talks about it. Presumably, these believers were encouraging one another, building one another up in the Lord through the gift of prophecy as part of their regular gatherings. None of these utterances are preserved for us yet they were from the Lord.
    Why would Paul admonish the Corinthians to be “eager to prophesy” and not to forbid speaking in tongues, even though these believers were abusing these gifts and needing correction?
    The fact that some church fathers and mothers do not speak much about these gifts is an argument from silence, never a very strong case.
    I would love it if you would re-visit this topic, perhaps interview a thoughtful continuationist.

    Enjoy what you are doing here.

    Reply
  3. Joni

    I am definitely interested in “speaking in toungues”, even tho I do not believe this gift exists today. I have good friends, who believe I’d does(, and abuse, whatever they are doing) I finally was bought the truth, from the Lord, and knew, in my heart, AND from scripture that it was a gift, only for the beginning of the church! Thanks, joni

    Reply
  4. Theodore Wright

    Sheologians, do you not read what these others have already told you? Why is it you wish to hold onto your personal favorite position besides having the reason of an over-sence of conservatism with a mere guise professing you believe such because of the Word of God? The Holy Bible does not teach what you believe denying the power of God. What few verses are quoted by cessationists on the subject do not adequately nor properly prove their conclusion.

    Yes, there are different forms of cessationists. Yet there also yet different forms of charismatics. So what does the Bible really teach on this? Some wish to come up with a partial charismatic position to please both sides which only yet gets favoring and disfavoring camps. For example, those who believe tongues is only a known tongue. Scripture speak clearly about the unknown tongue (c.f.: https://maverickchristians.com/gift-tongues ).

    Do you want to know and believe the Scriptures own testimony that is clearly portrayed? Or is it you have an axe to grind to only support your own conclusions? For what purpose and to what ends do you do this? Who is it that really has the strange fire?

    Reply

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©2018 Sheologians

©2018 Sheologians

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