This week, Joy and Summer discuss how feminism has infiltrated the church and what the antidote is. Then they play a new game you won’t wanna miss.

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11 Comments

  1. Keith Watson

    I was not raised as a Christian so I grew up thinking that when the 2,000 year old Bible was talking about the roles of women, it was talking about the culture back then and not about our current culture. After becoming a Christian I listened to a sermon series called the “Virtuous Woman Series” (on SermonAudio.com) by Pastor Jeff Pollard who is a Reformed Baptist. Hearing good, thorough, Biblical teaching changed my viewpoint. If I believe that God is real and true, then He does speak in positive ways about the roles of Christian women that are true and applicable to this day.

    Pollard also has sermons on the role of men called “The Godly Man Series”.

    Reply
  2. Mike

    Hi Summer and Joy!

    I’m a pastor in Hamilton, Ontario (yes, way up here in Canada). This series has been super helpful for me, and I feel a far greater sense of freedom from the pressure to baptize feminism… as though Christianity needs to borrow its view of women’s worth from feminism. A lot of women I know and care about are absolutely taken with the perspective of Bessey’s ‘Jesus Feminist’ and I’m sad that in my culture, it’s like we can’t imagine there’s anything better for women than what the current wave of feminism tells us. The Egalitarian view is assumed, rather than argued for. I know this stuff isn’t the center of the Gospel, but it’s important because it touches so many other areas of life and ministry. So, a question re: engaging these issues…

    I’m white, forty, and middle class – to a huge chunk of folks in my culture, I’m part of the problem. If I were to even *attempt* to teach on the Bible’s high view of women, women’s roles in the church / home, etc., it’d be a mess of distrust, protest, drama, and charges of patriarchy. I don’t know about your cultural context, but here, men don’t touch this stuff. Consequently, I’ve only very rarely approached these sorts of subjects in any public way, and it’s always been costly in terms of friends, popularity, etc. (Big deal). Anyway, I totally don’t want to minimize the fact that legit damage and oppression have happened when Scripture has been twisted in order to subjugate women. On the other hand, being a man shouldn’t disqualify me (or any other pastor / teacher) from teaching these things. So, what suggestions do you have for a pastor trying to faithfully communicate his legit concerns with people he loves concerning feminism? How would you respond to the charge that it’s unfair / inappropriate for a man to teach on these things? I think naming the idolatries underneath feminism is super important – but what sorts of things can I do that’ll diffuse some of the hostility and distrust here? Please do an episode on this!

    Reply
    • Laurette Marais

      I’m not really in a position to help, but what springs to mind first is that you need a culture in your church where the Word of God is truly the rule for faith and practice. You want a culture where, if you can show something from the Bible, then people will be eager to believe it. Only then will people be open to listen to you teaching what it says on hard issues to which they are resistant. They shouldn’t be taking things on your authority, but the Bible’s authority. That’s when your white-middle-class-male-ness will be entirely irrelevant, no matter what you are preaching on.

      Reply
    • Sandra

      Wish I could click “like” to this post

      Reply
    • Alana C.

      Hi Mike! Sounds like you are passionate about complementarianism. First off, I’m egalitarian, but not a bit liberal or feminist, not in the secular way. I’m American, and I even voted Trump. I’m passionate about the Word of God, and listening to the calling of the Holy Spirit. I’m sorry that you feel discriminated against, but I hope you listen to yourself when you say “being a man shouldn’t disqualify me”… no, your gender shouldn’t disqualify you! That is exactly what we Egalitarians keep telling people! When we preach Gal 3:28 to believers today, we explain that leadership (in the home AND in the church) is determined by living a godly life worthy of leadership, and most importantly, by the calling of the Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus’ main goal for the church (and marriage!) was unity, not hierarchy. Personally, I use egalitarianism as a platform to preach the importance of pro-life – that every life is valuable, regardless of gender, race, age, or disability, whether born or pre-born. Hard core feminists don’t like it, but it’s really hard for them to get around, because it really drives the point home that treating people equally means not killing the unborn ones! 😉 The “current wave” of feminism is almost entirely focused on abortion rights… but the earliest waves of feminists were Christian women, deeply devout, like Susan B. Anthony. They felt convicted by God that women’s voices needed to be heard equally to eliminate slavery, and protect the rights of the poor and lowly. That truth remains important, yet unheard by the Complementarian movement. Churches today NEED women’s voices, as pastors, evangelists, small group leaders. Marriages today need ONE man and ONE woman to walk side by side, in unity, not hierarchy. If you want to discuss feminism, then preach its beautiful roots, rooted in abolition and devotion to the Lord. Preach the true meaning of “ezer kenegdo”, and why women and men were commanded to rule together. Preach that the root cause of inequality between man and women is in Gen 3, the Fall… use that truth to teach that feminism can’t fix our relationship with each other… only by being forgiven and made new by Jesus Christ are we truly free from the curse of sin, from the curse of men desiring to rule over women, from women feeling incomplete without a man. Teaching hierarchy is a form of legalism, a stumbling block to those seeking the Gospel. How many people will turn away and go to Hell because legalist churches keep insisting that it is ok to discriminate against someone based on their God-given gender? Are our man-made traditions and hierarchy more important than the truth of God’s Word?

      Reply
  3. Sophie Bowden

    Paul Washer has wonderful sermon called ‘Biblical Womanhood’.
    It only goes for 60 mins and is worth watching.

    Reply
  4. Katherine

    I learned more in this series on feminism than I did in an entire “Christian Feminism” college course. Thanks for letting God use you two 🙂

    Reply
  5. Jacob

    The one criticism I have about this podcast is they way it frames egalitarian theology as the lone example of feminism infiltrating the Christian Church. Churches that adhere to complementarian theology can still be subtlety influenced by feminist theory. Here’s some examples,
    *Women are presumed to be morally superior or more “holy” than men.
    *When women sin it’s really their husbands fault.
    *The assumption that husbands are only to blame if a Christian marriage is struggling and that women would never seek a divorce for selfish or frivolous reasons.

    Reply
    • Summer White

      If that was insinuated, it was certainly never meant. I’m pretty sure we touched on the fact that feminism has infiltrated the church at large, not just egalitarian churches. That distinction was never meant or purposefully implied. And, we are a short podcast. No way we can cover everything.

      Reply
      • Alana

        The criticism I have is that all Egalitarians are conflated with extreme liberal feminists. There are a TON of politically conservative Egals who are quite orthodox in our theology. We believe the scriptures are the Word of God, we believe the blood of Jesus is the only way to Heaven, we believe the Holy Spirit empowers believers today. We don’t teach patriarchy for the same reason we don’t endorse slavery – it is a human made institution, described in the Bible, but not proscribed by God. In fact, in the beginning, God was very clear that He made man and woman to rule together as equals. Neither was charged to rule over or be under the other… until Gen 3, where sin broke the perfect Creation. Jacob has some great points, though, that I see too often in Comp theology – instead of following Biblical teaching of personal responsibility, comp theology claims the man is responsible for the spiritual state of his spouse, or that a man who strays only does so because his wife didn’t do x, y, or z. 1 Cor 7 discusses influencing an “unbelieving” spouse, and Paul basically says, maybe you will influence them, maybe you won’t. Either way, you are only responsible for obeying the Lord to the best of your ability as empowered by the Holy Spirit. Jesus took the blame for us all on the cross, we have no right to blame a husband for his wife’s failures, or visa versa.

        Reply
      • Kaleigh

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        Reply

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